Author Topic: The future of QB64  (Read 1465 times)

Offline TerryRitchie

  • Semper Fidelis
The future of QB64
« on: October 30, 2018, 06:37:31 PM »
The following article is a good read: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/play-windows-games-linux-steam-play,37990.html

Back in 2015 Valve was sounding the alarm that Microsoft's intention is to one day only allow Microsoft approved apps to be installed on Windows computers through the Windows store. To this end Valve became heavily involved in the Linux community helping to develop WINE further so more PC games could be played on the Linux platform. For years this looked like it had stalled but as the above article highlights they have come a long way.

So why do I bring this up? Well, when the switch to approved only apps happens this means that programs will need to be in the UWP (Universal Windows Platform) format leaving QB64 out in the cold. My guess is, and this is just my opinion, this change will happen soon after Windows 7 end of life. I'm sure at first traditional software will be allowed in the store but over time, slowly but surely, legacy software will be pushed aside in favor of UWP.

The future of QB64 after that? In one word ... Linux. Valve increasingly making it more popular for gamers to move to Linux will mean that soon after Windows 7 end of life we'll probably see an influx of users to Linux. Over time (with any luck) Windows will become a wasteland of Windows store apps that no one wants and Windows itself will become a has-been (Zune anyone?).

My point, I believe more development in the Linux arena should be considered now for the future of QB64. We'll see how this pans out 5 years from now, but my humble guess is this will happen and it's going to be ugly.
g=c800:5 fixes everything

Offline Cobalt

  • At 60 I become highly radioactive!
Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2018, 08:18:28 PM »
and what about those of us that still use Vista, and if possible never move on,  and those that still use XP?
Just dump us in the cold outright?

Granted after becoming radioactive I only have a half-life!

Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2018, 10:38:50 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events
(I am not seeing Sir Isaac Newton's prediction.)

I don't remember the year 2000 when everything was supposed to go to hell. ( I do remember 2001 !)

2012 Mayan end of the world.

Yawn

But go ahead and predict away, maybe someone will repent and start using Linux. :)

It's Halloween, boo!

Hey this just came on U tube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gd5SXN-YDc
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 10:42:28 PM by bplus »
B = B + ...
QB64 x 64 v1.2 2018 0228/86 git b30af92
QB64 v1.2 20180228/86 git 6fde149
QB64 v1.2 [dev build]_d84bb00

Offline TerryRitchie

  • Semper Fidelis
Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2018, 01:35:00 AM »
Quote
and what about those of us that still use Vista, and if possible never move on,  and those that still use XP?
Just dump us in the cold outright?

Nope, not saying that at all. QB64 versions made for these versions of Windows will still work fine.

Quote
Windows 7 will be the platform of choice for traditional Windows apps and not Win10 as it will automatically upgrade itself into oblivion.

Eventually Windows 7 will become unusable. Try running Windows 2000 or even XP on modern hardware. The driver support just isn't available any longer for these versions. Hardware Evolves: MFM, RLL, IDE, EIDE, SATA, M.2, USB1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, etc.. Hardware eventually outpaces operating systems. Sure, the hardcore hobbyist or technophile may find a way to make it last a bit longer, but that's a niche' crowd.

Quote
ReactOS will have achieved usability as a beta by then and you will be able to run your QB64 apps on ReactOS.

ReactOS has been promising usability for a loooong time now. Won't happen. Sorry.

Quote
My workaround for the Windows UWP problem is to abandon Windows, adopt Kubuntu as my base host

Exactly! You just proved my point.

Quote
ReactOS is not stable enough to run multiple applications but is stable enough to run a single application on a VM.

You don't want to rely on the recipients of the software you write to have the ability to install and maintain VMs.

Quote
Look at UWP as the death of Windows and the birth of something better

That's what I did, hence this post.

Quote
Windows store-only apps? VB6 available via the windows store? They can't do it.

Well then even more reason to look with urgency at the future.

Quote
The future is bright, the future is NOT Microsoft.

Uh, yeah, my point exactly.
g=c800:5 fixes everything

Offline SMcNeill

  • QB64 Developer
Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2018, 02:15:18 AM »
Honestly, I don't think Windows is going anywhere anytime soon.  It controls over 4/5 of the desktop/laptop market, and that means it's where the $$$ is.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/218089/global-market-share-of-windows-7/

For programmers, we ask ourselves, "Which system lets me do my own stuff the easiest?", and Windows is becoming less and less often the answer to that question.

For most consumers, it's a case of, "Which has the most games and apps?"

For most companies that product games and apps, it's a question of, "Which system will make me the most money??"

As long as MS keeps 4/5 of the market, they'll keep the "professional programmers" working to sell to that market -- no matter what hoops they have to make their monkeys.... errrr...  programmers, leap through.

It's a self sustaining loop: MS dominates the largest share of the market.  Companies produce to where they make the most money.  Consumers buy where they have the most options.

************************

Linux is excellent, but it'll never break that cycle for one major reason:  It's FREE.

No money for companies = no interest in paying employees to produce software.
No professional software = no consumers.
No consumers = No market dominance, which feeds to "no money for companies".

*************************

Consider the difference in how much money MS makes on Office each year, vs. how much OpenOffice earns... Which can pay folks to develop it more?  Spend more on advertising?  Afford to go from company to company, trying to sell "Enterprise Editions"?

Windows isn't going away anytime soon.


Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2018, 12:18:21 PM »
I thought I was trying to make a point about predictions but given the Halloween season and the political rhetoric of late my thoughts may have drifted over to the dark side...

After reading your replies and review of past history, I have to say MS isn't that unpredictable...

B = B + ...
QB64 x 64 v1.2 2018 0228/86 git b30af92
QB64 v1.2 20180228/86 git 6fde149
QB64 v1.2 [dev build]_d84bb00

Offline Cobalt

  • At 60 I become highly radioactive!
Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2018, 01:43:17 PM »
Quote
and what about those of us that still use Vista, and if possible never move on,  and those that still use XP?
Just dump us in the cold outright?

Nope, not saying that at all. QB64 versions made for these versions of Windows will still work fine.

but in fact you did, by my point of view with,
My point, I believe more development in the Linux arena should be considered now for the future of QB64.
and
QB64 versions made for these versions of Windows will still work fine.

which to me says" make any further enhancements\updates solely directed towards a Linux OS."
as in who cares if it works with Windows(or Macintosh) they can have the old outdated junk, as long as linux has all the nice new stuff.

does that mean we should just leave the Macintosh using members of our community out in the cold as well? granted it seems that is what Apple wants to do to its Macintosh OS users, and hopefully Microsoft will see the folly in that and not follow Apple down that path with its Windows OS.

Saying we should focus development of QB64 down any singular path, to me, feels counter to QB64s greatest aspect of being usable by all. And while we have no control over what OS manufactures do with their product, we do have control over QB64 lets not go the route of discrimination.
Granted after becoming radioactive I only have a half-life!

Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2018, 04:02:56 PM »
Hi guys
how do you agree with this classification about OS?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-iH-b_SPVg
and this sentence...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH3v41JmyIg

Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2018, 06:21:46 PM »
I remember the nonsense about Windows closing in its ecosystem, much as Apple has done from the start. If this happens, I agree that the natural choice would be Linux.

But someone at M$ must understand that the ONLY reason they have dominated the market is that that have never had such a closed ecosystem. Closed ecosystems are the kiss of death, or at least, one great way to make your product a niche product. Like Mac.

Parenthetically, my prediction is that the Mac will disappear, and will be replaced by an improved iOS tablet with attached keyboard. Apple has become mostly an iOS vendor these days. Anyway, if M$ wants to become like Apple, great for profits but not for market dominance, well, let's at least hope they go that route cluefully.

I haven't heard anything lately about walling in the UWP ecosystem, but what Terry suggests is credible. Could happen when Windows 7 stops being supported, which should be in 2020. Not that far in the future anymore. One reason I never bought Apple anything is just that. Their closed system.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 06:23:22 PM by Bert22306 »

Offline Pete

  • Cuz I sez so, varmint!
Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2018, 06:47:15 PM »
I've always based my level of success on exceptional present time consciousness. If I could only combine that with as much attention to predicting the future, Trump would be MY Vice President... instead of my President. Oh well.

Facebook will be failing in 5 years. My only prediction concerning computing to date. I just think the interest in social media is somewhat more fad based than fan based. Still, something will have to replace it,and I don't know what it will be.

Microsoft apparently is not going to give up the whole One-Drive cloud computing app subscription lease your software bullshit. They re the big dog when it comes to computing, so as they go, so goes the Hello World. It's a damn shame.

Programming hobbyists will have to migrate to Linux to keep up their hobby. As much as I hate having to be both a computer hobbyist and a programmer, I have to weigh the future with keep or quit in regards to coding. Keep will require running QB64 on Linux.

Pete


Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2018, 07:18:55 PM »
Can I ask a rather oblivious (maybe rhetorical at this point) question?

Why not adapt or re-do QB64 so that it *will* be satisfied by whomever sets the standard for the Windows Store? With an *actual* target like that, I could possibly conceive that some of us could combine our strengths and do what's needed. (Hell, maybe I'll actually get involved!)

EDIT: This too: Why think inside the box only? Target JavaScript like Galleon was saying, and you kill SO many birds with the same stone. Free of any OS, universal, the list goes on and on. Yeah, I'm all for a JavaScript target. And to whip the naysayers into shape right out of the gates, I point out that Xampp (for running JS locally) is a very handy install, regardless of QB64's status.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 07:24:10 PM by STxAxTIC »
"An eye for an eye like a fish needs a bicycle" - Adolf Lincoln

Efforts:
http://www.barnesreport.net/scripturam/

Offline Pete

  • Cuz I sez so, varmint!
Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2018, 07:23:47 PM »
Google made a JavaScript BASIC. It's crap compared to QB64, yet it's out there.

Pete

Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2018, 07:30:22 PM »
Quick correction to the above, given my fragile knowledge on this:

A Google employee recently started a thing called wwwbasic, and is still very early in the grand scheme of the project - in theory. (There's your bait, Pete.) Our very own Fellippeheitor is a contributor to the thing, so he could say more, and I'll leave that to him. The thing will never be "as compatible" to QB45 as QB64 is right now... But since "right now" and "QB64" might not belong in the same sentence in a few years, I think we should encourage and popularize any effort to immortalize BASIC as JavaScript. It's only the most widely-used language in the world, why would we ever target it? ;-)    (And there's some bait for Steve too.)
"An eye for an eye like a fish needs a bicycle" - Adolf Lincoln

Efforts:
http://www.barnesreport.net/scripturam/

Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2018, 09:52:09 PM »
Hi guys
just a little question...
I read Javascript, but surely you don't want say Java... so here my question
How Javascript can cover QB64 performance being a browser interpreted language?
Can Java cover QB64 performance and extend platform to android and iphone systems?
Somewhere I read that natural evolution of BASIC programmers is Java. How much you agree about this sentence (1= no ... 10 = Yes).
How much difficult is for a C++ programmer write in Java? How ripid is the curve of learning?
What kind of power do you find if you founding QB64 on JavaScript? And on Java?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTto0CWwDVo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo5I6I3BdLU

Thanks to read

Offline Pete

  • Cuz I sez so, varmint!
Re: The future of QB64
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2018, 10:01:45 PM »
Bait? Like I'll get sucked into a debate? I'll have you know I'm a master... wait... anyway, I actually don't have a problem with whatever language QB64 translates into... unless, of course, it's FreeBASIC. That's just stupid... on both levels.

@Terry: Thanks for this post topic!

Pete